Posts Tagged ‘Feminism’

Athene responds with an interesting comment to “Role of Slavery”

December 18, 2008
  1. I’m bringing Athene’s comment to the front of the blog because she has some very interesting and important comments to make on this (and other) issue.  There’s a lot in her comment to ponder, and that is the whole purpose of this blog…to educate, inform and shake things up.

Thank you, Athene, for your permission to use your comment and sorry that this damn is so wanky in formatting! I can’t control this stuff.

Lady Nyo

  1. Athene Says:
    Fair warning, this may be a bit of a rant.

    I must say, when I read this article, the one word that kept repeating itself in my mind was: heteronormative. Concepts of femininity, of women’s roles and men’s roles – they are only social constructs.

    Science, for one example, is only a traditionally male role because society has deemed it that way – not because males are better able to think critically.

    “Feminism is not about being the same, but about being able to express whom one is without being judged.”


    Feminism is, quite simply, the belief that women have the legal right to political, social, and economic equality.

    Anyone, regardless of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, longs to be able to express themselves without being judged. This isn’t just a feminist ideal.

    “The two complementary strengths between male and female are given free scope to shine – the one a high intensity, piercing kind of approach and the other the strength of endurance and patience, rich in verbal communication and intuition.”

    These “strengths” are not biologically based; they are the traditional social constructs that most everyone has bought into. Suggesting that women have more endurance and patience and intuition than men is, IMO, downright silly. Suggesting that men are high intensity with a piercing kind of approach is also silly.

    IMO, it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. When you grow up, you are inundated with these ideas of gender roles, and being of the young impressionable mind, you believe you need to fit into these gender roles. If women cultivate their patience, it’s not because biologically they are hard-wired to have more patience than their male counterparts, it’s because they were led to believe this is how they should be, and adjusted their behavior appropriately.

    “The more that women are placed in a position in society where they are bearing the burdens of traditional male roles and still maintaining the traditional duties of the primary nurturer, the more need there is for a place they can go where they are relieved of some of these burdens.”

    Bearing the burdens of traditional male roles? Who says they are burdens? And why do they need to be relieved?

    Perhaps these so called burdens wouldn’t be burdens if society got out of the heteronormative state it’s stuck in, and started demanding that males begin to be nurturers and take on equal responsibility as females. There are plenty of single fathers out there in this world who do a fine job of raising their children. If they were, as this author suggests, biologically incapable or at a biological disadvantage of doing so, their children would most likely be taken away from them and given to the more biologically inclined females.

    “…parameters that define their existence, and as well, to emphasize the natural proclivities of one gender over another…”

    IMO, this writer seems to have totally bought into the concept of heternormativity (which is societal based, not biologically based), and is using it as justification of dominant/submissive and/or Master/slave play and/or relationships across the board.

    If this writer personally sees justification of Dom/sub “roles” due to an adoption of heteronormative thinking, then that’s fine. But it seems to me that this writer is trying to justify this relationship for other people using the same “logic” which I personally find to be faulty.

    I would willingly embrace heteronormative society as much as I would willingly embrace the variola virus.

    Now, while we’re on the subject of domination and submission…

    IMO, a submissive isn’t really a submissive. A submissive usually has use of safe words and is able to, with a single word, halt an activity if s/he takes issue with it. If you are a submissive and you are allowed to use a safe word, in reality, taking a step away from the immediate play acting scene, you are in control of everything. You say “yellow” and the dominant has to slow down and make sure everything’s okay. You say “red” and the dominant has to stop everything at once. So, even though the dominant may have some control over the steering wheel and gas, the submissive has full control of all the brakes, and can brake anytime, for any reason.

    According to some, slavery is more of a true state of submission to another than just being a submissive. Most BDSM slaves (as opposed to submissives) have no luxuries of safe words, and they must endure whatever is put to them. However, the neglect of safe words is usually considered a very dangerous thing that deviates from the usual rules of SSC (safe, sane, consensual) in the BDSM community. People I’ve talked to point out exactly what I mentioned in the above paragraph – if there is a safe word, there is no “true” submissiveness to another because there is an easy out – hence, diving another level deeper into slavery – “true” submission.

    But this leads to even more points to ponder on.

    If an important hallmark of BDSM play is to be SSC, then “true” submission (slavery) isn’t [safe or mainstream] BDSM, or is it?

    If BDSM SSC rules are obeyed, and submissives are allowed to use safe words, are they still in a submissive role?

    Is there a difference between a submissive and slave? In my experience, it depends who you ask. And, do you care? If your play is restricted between you and your partner, do you care how else everyone else defines slave and submissive?


What is Submission?

December 13, 2008

We had some discussion a while back about submission, but it wasn’t completed. Because of further private discussion I am raising it again, thought it will make some groan. Tant pis.

Friends (and some enemies) know that I have struggled to come to a place with this issue. A year ago I started some research/discovery, and was caught up in so many harrowing issues. I either fought it/denied it/tried to manipulate it/disown it…sometimes all at the same time. I just couldn’t get a handle on it.

Part of the problem I believe was I came to the ‘subject’ late in life. I’m no spring chicken. I also have had to be very dominant in my life before. Some know that because of some particular work I carried a gun. That will impact your ideas about yourself, even if you have no idea of submission. Coming upon this issue of submission, I really struggled…still do. My husband was of no help at all. He was hoping any D/s issue would fly by and I would come to my senses. Well, I didn’t…..and once that became obvious to him, he started to get interested…in part of being a dominant. But there was a lag of almost two years and I went through a lot. I admit I have resentment towards him today because instead of partnering with me in this investigation…he ignored it. He’s interested now because he knows that this issue is sticking around, and underneath it all, he’s a very traditional man, with some real dominancy in him. Before I thought he was just stubborn. Now I know its purpose.

He’s a man….and he’s not broken.

I have come to the conclusion that submission can take many forms…not just the stuff we see and read about. I have to be careful, because I am reading the Gor books from the first onwards. There are some very seductive parts of Norman’s philosophy that make me double up..and not with laughter. There is this issue of submission and submission that is slavery, and some of it hits my gut hard. Perhaps it’s the overpowering presence of a strong male with power and control at his command. I don’t know, but I do know that we live in a real world, and men just aren’t like Norman’s sexy characters.

( has so much to do with it. I was thinking last night how wonderful that our genitals basically never wear out. Maybe our desire for our particular partners does, but our apparatus keeps going like the energizer bunny. At all ages…in I grow older, the sexual interests and desires reveal themselves to have different levels and a zest for adventure. That’s the good news. I was told so by a Dom I respect this is true. He’s in his 60’s and doesn’t seem to have any flagging yet.)

However…..I have noticed a change in my behavior for a while now. Before, faced with a dominant man, I would get mouthy and challenge him. I seemed to ‘have’ to reestablish my own power in light of what was in front of me. Now? Well, perhaps it’s a more ‘natural’ thing….

but if a man is truly powerful…I am amazed and I find myself reacting in a much different way. I feel more feminine. I feel that I don’t have to challenge him. And if I get to know him a bit….I assume that he will ‘protect’ me. Don’t ask me from what….pitbulls, flying glass, but that he just will.

A lot of men rail against feminism and the women’s movement for changing women from more traditional behaviors and in the doing..changing men. Confusing them. I think this is too shallow an answer to what shifted, happened, changed, between men and women over the last few decades. Economics and social pressures happened…women worked and had to for survival…and that of their families. Divorce, etc. All sorts of social changes happened.

John Norman talks about something called Natural Order…I’m not going to open a discussion here about that today, but perhaps if there is interest later…ok. (I find that there are numerous Goreans reading this site, though they rarely show their faces, but my stats show they are coming from Gorean sites or whatever…)

A lot of people in D/s blame women for being bossy, but from where I sit…men are just too lazy. Many like the fact that they don’t have to put forth any effort to ‘head the household’. I see this in many cultures, not only my own. They are broken men.

So, what is submission to you? I am getting a better idea what it is to me….but damn if it still isn’t so sexual.

I guess I just can’t get my hands out of my crotch.

Lady Nyo

A Feminist Poem: In Defense of Lilith

November 2, 2008


Part One.

From the beginning
You are defiled
By all that would
Call your name.

From Mesopotamia,
Between the two rivers
The Tigris and Euphrates,
Like your two white breasts
That fed the soil between
The mountains and deserts
You were demoness.

They gave you
The head of an owl
The feet of a bird,
But not just any bird,
But the malevolent Zu-bird
Eater of man-flesh
And chaos maker.

In the Bible
You were Adam’s
First wife,
But he put you aside,
And you were seen unclean.

In the Talmud
You fared little better,
Cast out into the desert,
Again a demon, a sorceress
Unclean and to be shunned.

In Sumerian myths
You were a succubus
Sucking dry the seed of men,
Belaboring the birth pangs of women
Killing the infants you caught unseen
From the birth canal.

Your breasts gave forth no milk
Nor your womb fruit
Your mouth gave off howls of obscenity
And your hair like serpents.

Amulets and prayers were worn and given
Sacrifices were made for your banishment.
Your name was whispered in curses and threats
By the insane,
And women were burned in your name
On bonfires of male and church vanity.

Enough, Lilith.
This madness will stop here
For your worth and value has been weighted
Only by a part of humanity.

The rest of us know,
Embrace you,
Welcome you.
We are your inheritors
Without the deceit of men.

As you squat to the earth,
Your genitals revealed,
We know you strike fear
Into the faint hearts of men
We know your beauty sullied,
Your power reaches to the Sun
And your eyes reflect
The tides of the Moon.

You bear the hatred and fear of Men.
But Women have opened their eyes.

Jane Kohut-Bartels
Copyrighted, 2008

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