Posts Tagged ‘John Norman’

“Metamorphosis VII and VIII”

May 8, 2017

Image result for fruit bats

Common Fruit Bat…..

I forgot to conclude this series.  These are the last two ‘episodes’ in the Metamorphosis Series.  Silly Gorean references……’

Lady Nyo

Metamorphosis VII


“Bart? Whatchadoin’?” Laura yawned, just waking up.

“I’m working on a pathology.” His ‘go away answer’. Back hunched over the keyboard, typing fast.

“Which one?” Laura blinked, trying to see what Bart was writing.

“Funny. I’m looking at this Gorean website.”

“Ah geez, Bart! It’s a comic book.” Laura’s eyes widened at the picture of a woman kneeling on her knees, lips parted seductively, naked. She thought of her own knees and knew she could never hold that position. Plus, she didn’t look ‘cute’ naked. Not before, and not now with these pinkish wings attached to her elbows.

“Hey Bart? Are you serious? How am I to hold that position serving you on my knees?”

“You could levitate a bit with your wings, take pressure off your knees. You could use your imagination if you wanted to please me.”

“Please him.” There it was. Always please the Dom. What did she get out of it? Seemed like life with her dead husband, Howard, except with guano.

“Bart? I don’t think Gorean Doms wear aprons.”

Bart looked down. He forgot to remove it after the dishes. Maybe he really was a Gorean submissive? Not a good thought.

Metamorphosis VIII

“Greetings Laura”.

Bart Bartowski spotted Laura reading at the dining room table as he fluttered into the room.

Laura looked up from “Kajira Daily” and stared at him. He saluted her with his right hand thumping his left shoulder.

“You still playing at Gorean stuff, Bart?”

“Not playing, Laura. I’m convinced John Norman is a visionary.”

“Oh Bart,” said Laura, flipping through the magazine and turning it sideways to view the Kajira of the Month.   “John Norman is a terrible writer, what makes you think he’s any better at Philosophy? Plus, those Gor books are old. And you know my knees are bad.”

Bart opened his mouth to argue, then clamped it shut.

“Gorean bats don’t debate with kajiras. Get me orange juice, girl.”

“Good idea, Bart. Make it two,” said Laura studying slave jewelry on the model.

“Ah come on, pleaseeee Laura, honey? Can’t you pretend I’m a Gorean bat for a few moments? You never play with me.”

Laura started laughing.

“Ah, Bart? Gorean bats don’t beg.”

Bart glowered at Laura. Then his wings sagged.

“Tell you what, Bart. You’re a fruit bat, right?”

Laura wiggled her peach-fuzzy butt.

“So bite me.”



Jane Kohut-Bartels

Copyrighted, 2017





A Worthy Post from “Z” on Submission, ‘Natural Order’ and D/S issues.

August 16, 2009

I received this today from a reader “Z” who chimes in every so often.  I have known this person for a while, and I find him to be sensible and balanced…and cautious with these myriad issues of dominance and submission, bdsm, etc.

Over the course of time, and it’s not that we haven’t disagreed on things, we have discussed many issues and have come to a place where we see things as they are:  “Z” is the ultimate realist (though also a romantic) and I have respect for his experience.  He has guided me on some important issues, and especially around a particular ‘thorny’ individual.  He was able to see what this fellow really was when I was resistant to the truth.  So when “Z” sends a comment, I find a lot of pre-chewed sense….

I am glad to have his input, and in spite of some issues,  we remain friends.  That’s a bit of the measure of mature adults.

Lady Nyo


Just a few words from me.
You are indeed fortunate that you have the opportunity to settle into a natural balance and rhythm with your partner. I do not confuse that balance with the ‘natural Order’ espoused by some cultist groups.

(Well, “Z”, it wasn’t without a struggle.  My Husband and I had to see up close and personal some prime examples.   This “Natural Order” thing I confess to not having  studied in the light of more scientific thought: I took the thoughts  of  John Norman, who wrote the “Gor” stories to be the philosophical basis of his “Natural Order”.  I’m not sure now that he was only  trying to form an apologia for his and his wife’s bdsm practice with the Gor series.  Too outlandish to really consider to base the practice of a marriage.

I like Norman better in his “The Cognitivity Paradox” (An Inquiry Concerning the Claims of Philosophy), under his REAL name, John Lange, Princeton University Press, 1970.  That is a statement that you can get your teeth around, IF you really care to do so.  That short book is also not generally known or read by the so called lifestyle Goreans I have met.  They are generally not interested in such claims of philosophy.

And you can’t disabuse me of the cultist behavior and intention.

You have achieved a level of satisfaction that is reflecting the biological and psychological functions of male and female. The female nurturing and bringing comfort to a true partnership.

(But not without struggle.  I was filled with the ideas that I was somehow cheating myself in doing so.  I was very short sighted.)

However, our society no longer reflects that ancient arrangement. Our intellectual achievements and aspirations take us all in a different direction.
Setting aside the spectrum of human sexuality and behaviour most women in the Western world have taken on a homogenity of function with men.
Both sexes find themselves out of the balance you describe so eloquently.

(Thank you, Z, and this is in no way is an argument for “Natural Order”.  At least as the readers and practitioners of Gorean ‘philosophy’ see it.  What I think is that there are a lot of weird pathologies in the followers of things Gor. Visit the Gorean Boards for some of that.  Of course, there are ‘normal’ people there, too…but if they are so normal, why are they there?

I have seen some of this first hand.  These people are not a good basis to further a philosophy.  They are mired in their own confusions and give this over to the ‘practice’ of something that is a fairy tale in any case…well, fiction, and not very well written fiction at that.  Norman should have stuck to his Princeton days philosophy.

However, Norman was writing the Gor series pre internet, and some of the details and research is marvelous.  He did have a couple of degrees in study that shows a deep and abiding understanding of a lot of cultures, especially in the Middle Eastern settings.  Some of the traditions, like bread/salt/breaking the water bags, and their social/cultural consequences are spot on.  Some of the customs he wrote about were not well known in the ’60’s by the majority of his readers.   It’s unfortunate that people embrace some of the other stuff instead of taking Norman for being a pioneer in some interesting cultural issues brought forth in fiction. )

Hence the searching for something to satisfy those un met psychic and biologic urges.

In some cases that searching leads to the excesses you have described in other posts.

You know that I dislike stereotypical labels. D/s and BDSM can be like uniforms constraining one into a set of alternate social ‘norms’.
Sex is the closest and most intimate of partnerships. The libido perhaps the strongest biologic driver we have. It is no surprise that this arena is where our most basic needs are often expressed.

To be ’submissive’ is quite natural. However, it does not have to entail bindings and whips, nor utter slavery to another.
It is naturally expressed in the opening to a lover and receiving what they g

(Exactly…and this is where ‘submission’ is distorted by Gorean/D/S/bdsm adherents.  We went through hell trying to conform to these ideas, and there were many of them, and in the end… was a very simple  issue.  It didn’t have the ‘drama’ of all this above.  It became a simple bond between a normal man…and a normal woman.  Those ‘awakenings’ to a very interesting issue were fulfilled without the trappings ….just a peaceful resolve in a long term marriage…which at first seemed wanting of something…until we saw what was the plight of others.  And it didn’t hold expressed fear or trepidation, a pandering to an overwhelming and unhealthy ego, a dominance that was ‘on’ because it was fearful of being ‘off’.  (Of course, the issues of sadism here compounds the issue)

It was a bond of respect and admiration for the creativity and strength of what was opposite without jarring behavior.)

I guess that where the balance you have now found is missing from their role, the reaction is to seek a more intense expression of submission. It may be this is where the problems of abuse and violation can arise.

(I think you very right, Z.  That intensity is on both sides:  it’s the submissive trying to ‘prove’ that she really is a ‘submissive’  (and I have been accused of ‘denying my submission’..or submissive state) to gain the approval of this Dom…. to placate his insecurities and anger.  So the submissive opens herself to more and more …ah….abusive behavior…or degrading behavior, or humiliating behavior… if the Dom so pleases….and the Dom takes it as his ‘due’.  Because he’s the Dom.

Or because he’s a real  sadist.  I have found that not all Doms are made of the same cloth.  In fact….real Doms are not tied up in these behaviors above…they know play from real.  I didn’t.

LOL!….I am glad that we  found other ways to address this issue of
Domination and Submission in our marriage. Perhaps where there is a lot of hurt and history, couples apply the whip and try to get ‘deeper’ into this issue of  D/s, but I think it does come down to a ‘natural order’…a balance of natures and attendant tasks…

Just not what some make of it.

Just a few musings

My regards


And thank you, Z.  Always informative and a pleasure.

Lady Nyo…who would like at some point to address this knotty issue of ‘service’. ( but really not so knotty)

Something on John Norman, the author of the Gor books…

December 14, 2008

I cribbed this from Wikipedia because most people are not familiar with John Norman’s background and this gives a little about his philosophical basis. I have recognized Nietzche’s ‘natural order’ philosophy, but this is just a partial basis to understanding Norman.

Lady Nyo

Norman is a follower of Edgar Rice Burroughs, and his influential Gor series bears parallels to Burroughs’ John Carter (character)|John Carter of Mars. His novels include lengthy philosophical and sociology|sociological dissertations criticizing the malaise of modern society (everything from common dishonesty to nuclear warfare|nuclear holocaust). A wide variety of societies, cultures, moral concepts, and technologies are described in depth in his novels; however it is always within the context of the male adventure genre, and, as such, families, children, and other mundane aspects of real life are generally absent and those roles are left undiscussed.

His fiction places emphasis on living in accordance with a Friedrich Nietzsche|Nietzsche-esque natural order, sponsoring a hierarchy of talent, especially strength. Based on this assumed hierarchy, combined with a particular usage of evolutionary psychology to analyze gender role|gender differences, he contends that woman is the submissive natural helper, and figurative slave, of man. His work often takes this observation literally: heroes enslave heroines who, upon being enslaved, revel in the discovery of their natural place. Norman and Goreans have been criticized for this tenet of what they consider honoring nature. The extent to which Norman intended this philosophy to be taken literally, rather than as a vehicle of sexual fantasy, is debatable. Bondage in the novels and in his Imaginative Sex guide is overtly and completely sexual in nature and while the philosophy presented is unquestionably that of male dominance, the male characters are themselves often temporarily and elaborately enslaved by powerful females.

It should be noted that Norman’s interpretations of evolutionary psychology represent one set of viewpoints among many, few of which define men’s and women’s roles as John Norman does. Rather, evolutionary psychology provides theories and evidence that may be interpreted and used in many ways, like almost all science.

What is Submission? II

December 14, 2008

Since this entry seems to pop up from time to time, with other entries on D/s, submission, I have a word of caution here.

A few years ago I was involved with a man in Montreal, who called himself Mackenzie Cross, but his real name was Jerry Go-lick.  He ‘promised’ enhancement, and because I was stupid and naive, I fell for his gab.  He was a silver tongued devil, but in the end, he was just a liar. A calculated liar.

Where I have put forth praise of submission, etc….I want to backtrack.  I was involved (really on the outskirts mostly) in bdsm because I thought it might have some answers.  It didn’t.

My experience was this:  Most of the so-called ‘doms’ I met, online and in person…were wanky, insecure, massively unbalanced and stupid men.  Some obviously, because of physical deficiences….fat, unattractive,  bad personalities, or outright psychosis, were not able to attract women in the ‘normal’ ways.  They sat behind computers because then they could be anything to anyone.  Those I met in person?  They had their own bag of issues:  many of these men are just players and fit the catagory above.  Sociopaths LOVE computers.

As for the women? These ‘submissives’?  Many of them were desperate, lard-assed women who just wanted a man to pay attention to them, to micro-manage them so they didn’t have to bother with their lives….sounds so ‘freeing’. Yeah, I really want a man to give me permission to go to the loo or when to sit down.

And surprisingly, most of these women are married, as was I.  What disturbs me most is the constant disloyalty of these women towards their husbands:  In many cases, every morsel of food they put in their mouths comes from the labor of their husbands.  But they have no problem talking about them on their blogs like they are dogs. This disloyalty is destructive to marriage and  says much more about themselves than their husbands.

My marriage survived this jackass in Montreal.  I survived this experience.  But in no way was it an ’empowering’ or ‘enhancing’ experience.  It was a stupid, demeaning hell.

Only by realizing that I didn’t need the so-called ‘help’ of a man who was nothing but a sham and a liar….that empowerment was something I already had spades of, ….did I come out of that stupid and insulting period.

Understanding yourself, what you self-worth really is, is the answer to all the nastiness of the world.  Once you understand this, you don’t need these terribly unequal relationships.

I would advise those who are truly seeking answers, or are confused about this crap, to read the website of EOPC:

Lady Nyo, aka Jane

It surprised me when Jane invited me to contribute t

I am posting this on the blog surface, because it is a very well thought out opinion.  It gives a LOT to think about, and perhaps others, especially the thinking Goreans, will respond.

Regardless, it is very welcome on my blog, because after all…it’s all about investigation into differently held patterns of behavior.

And philosophies….

Lady Nyo


My Dear Jane-Elisabeth

The Natural Order is a very seductive but ultimately false concept, on a par with Creationism and Mutually Assured Destruction.

Would you consider a lioness in full hunt to be submissive? The full maned magnificent lion sleeping in the sun, lazy and idle, only rousing during the season to mate purfuntorily with its harem, as truly attractive in its sexual dominance?

I agree that men are in many cases confused but that is a consequence of social change in the Western World. I think that if you were offered the choice of living truly as a slave, ill educated, without choice and no horizon beyond the hearth with the attention of a man when he so chose you might think twice.

I have written to you before on Dominance and submission and its often straying into pain and pleasure.

My views remain unchanged. I too have read the fantasy works of Norman and others, they were a product of their time, they have no ‘philosophy’ only the fantasy wish fulfillment of the author. They have no deeper message other than the writer exploring their own sensual feelings and creating a self satisfying world.

I have written works of non concensual erotic slavery and utter dominance. They pleased me to write and many to read from their comments in response. But I do not espouse them as philosophical works nor do I seek followers.

Yes, women come to me as you well know, you are aware of what transpires, the depths of sensuality and the breaking down of their psychological barriers and boundaries through overwhelming pleasure and, if appropriate, pain. The depths of emotional and sexual turmoil.

It scares you.

There is some safety in the stereotype, the Master and slave of common thought. There are ‘limits’ understood ‘edges’. Gorean and other ‘styles’ are just that. Fashion statements for followers not leaders.

You will know what I mean when I remind you that a true leader will tire of the inanity of what is created by their followers?

Norman like Hubbard would laugh to see what their followers have done with their fantasies.  Azimov once wrote a short story about Shakespeare and had him say, as he shook his head coming out from a contemporary university lecture on his works. ‘Methinks they could wring a flood from a damp breechclout’.

I have little or no patience with elaborate social practices and belief structures built upon flimsy fantasy.

What you describe as a reaction to a quietly confident and psychologically strong man is little more than the mating instinct. If you want natural order that is where you should turn. Read Desmond Morriss and his classic The Naked Ape and other works. It is in fact ALL about sex.

What happens beyond is an overlay of justification.

I have worked with women and stripped them down to their cores. After exposing layer after layer through fantasy, orgasm and pain to get to that basic issue. It is about opening, spreading, accepting and welcoming the entry. Everything else just gets in the way.

For myself, what have I learned?

That I take huge pleasure from control. The control of a partner in their extremis. Orgasmic release is merely a pleasant part of the pleasure for me. To lead a partner, not by force but by tenderness and firm direction to their furthest boundary and show them what more there is to feel beyond. But it is personal, self knowledge not a cathechism to read and follow, a book of instructions or a pattern of learned behaviour or behaviour to ‘fit in’. I wish to be my own man and I am certain you want to be your own woman.

You may reject this as too controversial, too dismissive of others dearly held and very real beliefs. But I can only speak as I find.

My respect and warm regards




UPDATE:  Friend Phil makes some assumptions, though that era was rather confusing to myself and my friends, and Phil certainly was a friend.

No, Phil, It did not scare me….it excited me in ways I hadn’t considered.  But there was real danger.

And the danger is this:  We can place …or attempt to place ourselves….our precious selves…into hands that are mean, niggardly, potentially destructive, and in the end….evil.  However, this time was one of great learning….that I didn’t need false gurus to be telling me about my life:  after all these years I was experiencing exactly what was necessary to grow.

I had given up something of myself for a very short time to an unworthy fellow who turned out to be nothing but a silly cad.  Certainly not worth my trust and respect for what he revealed himself to be in the end: a liar.

But ultimately?  We learn…and when we again trust ourselves…we can quickly scan those false gurus and walk on by.

Lady Nyo

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